Flight

Flight details
Title: Just to annoy MrGrumpy who said Luke shouldn't enter titchy flights! :0)
Site:Firle
Pilot:Stephen Purdie
Date of flight:26th March 2014
Wing type:Rigid wing
Flight details: 
Meandering about near Firle. First Track download did not split off second flight for some reason...
Cross-country league entry
Flight type:FAI Triangle
Takeoff:50.83407,0.082251
To:50.835842,0.087025
To:50.829311,0.051991
To:50.84443,0.061545
Finish at:50.834019,0.081906
Landing place:Firle
Witness:GPS file
Distance6.41 km
Score16.03 km
GPS evidence from:2014-03-26_10-39A.kml
Comments
Scott Dougal29th Mar 02:21: I think its generally well understood that if in a debate the other side resorts to name calling then that is a sign of weakness in their argument. I am not grumpy, simply making a point. If people are not capable of debating ideas then that is their problem not mine however to be clear I do strongly disagree with how the XC League is being used at the moment. I feel that is is being gamed - in the sense that flights are being claimed by the numbers and not because of the result of any commitment to fly cross country. The sense that we should applaud small flights by pilots striking out on their first XC's is a great one but made mute here by the main claimant of these flights flying at world class international competitions. I made this point here on this forum before after the notion that the rules were being debated were made public - but then as here too the "debate" ended with personalised slurs suggesting I was being argumentative or a "troll" so I withdrew. You call me "grumpy" Steve I know because you want to lighten the mood and poke fun at what feels like a difficult situation, thats fine, I respect that. If pilots feel happy within themselves to post claims for km flown without the commitment to fly away cross country in the way we know it should be all power to them. Andrew Craig posted a small flight the other day that I applaud, flying over a short distance but with the commitment to leav...
Scott Dougal29th Mar 02:21: ...e the hill and look for a second thermal the argument is not simply against small flights. Its my feeling however that relentlessly playing the numbers devalues the spirit of what should be a place you feel proud to claim hard fought for distance, distance you have achieved through skill and commitment. Maybe if this idea is to radical you can establish a new League to which I am not invited to take part where you can then insulate yourself from my opinions. Luke did this with the Hang Gliding google group "OnTour" he established "SouthernHangies" in October last year specifically to exclude me from the conversation. So when pilots post to that group - each time you press send - you do so in a way engineered by Luke such that I cannot hear and have no chance to voice my thoughts in the way I enjoyed to do on the old group. This is not the behaviour of an adult willing to stand up for themselves without resorting to name calling, or writing to people defaming your character, and it is certainly is not the way a person should experience a club of people with whom they share the wonder of flying. I am not grumpy Steve - I am disappointed. Do better, try harder and feel proud of the km you claim on the league. -- my flying and photos are here... http://www.stovolando.co.uk
Stephen Purdie29th Mar 03:39: We lodged declarations for a substantial out and return that day. Sadly the conditions did not permit most pilots to cover anything like the declared distance. It just so happened that Luke and another were able to get well out into the valley and, had they not been hanging about for the rest of us, could almost certainly have completed the task declared. Their encouragement is decidedly beneficial to the XC potential and hopes of the club. I am not party to any prior acrimony and nor do I wish to become embroiled in any personal issues between pilots; I do believe that keeping the possibility of flying XC at the front of peoples' minds during such an unprecedented period of rubbish weather is to be lauded and the opportunity for those in the know to show others how to use the fantastic XC resources now available to us is extremely helpful. I for one now have several new apps and bookmarks on my 'phone. TTFN Steve Purdie
Steve Uzochukwu29th Mar 03:57: We have a set of rules agreed for the entry of XC flights. It is almost universally accepted that out and return or defined flights are harder than the same distance downwind. The rules were, AFAICT, discussed and agreed by a majority. With regard to Southern Hangies, a situation arose where certain topics were not for discussion within On Tour, or were frowned upon. It was therefore sensible to open another list where those things could be discussed. In particular the crossover with power was not welcomed, so it made sense to take that elsewhere rather then end up arguing about it. In the end, the leagues, like Southern Hangies, is open to all, but there is no point joining in something that one does not want to be a part of. There is no policy of exclusion, but in joining one would have to accept that the discussion of certain topics is allowed there, or methods of XC regarded as not credible in one's own personal view are accepted by others. Whilst it may be easy to point to Luke as the villain of the piece, everyone on Southern Hangies has made a choice, they have chosen to join that list, and no gun has been held to anyone's head nor has any threat been made. It was quite the opposite - it seemed that certain people wanted On Tour to be a certain way, with some things not talked about, and now they have got their wish. It's more a case of being careful what you ask for in case you get it. We are free to as...
Steve Uzochukwu29th Mar 03:57: ...sociate with whoever we choose. Like Mr P I'm desperate to stay out of any personal acrimony or conflict between pilots, and would like to avoid the walking on eggshells feeling that is occasionally felt in the community. I think we accept that efforts at mediation have failed so the rest of us would just like to stay out of the way. SteveU. HG/PG.
David Williamson30th Mar 02:44: I would say that you can make your own choice what you do, within the rules. As a matter of personal pride there are few top pilots who would enter a ridge-soaring out-and-return in an X/C league. I don't think you've ever seen Cookie entering the Newhaven run in the winter league but the 'winners' often do. Don't forget that it's only a bit of fun; there's no cash prize! " It's got to be rough to be good!"
Ian White30th Mar 05:37: Again, apologies to the masses for this taking up forum space but as the subject matter has been posted here it needs reply. Quote Scott... "Luke did this with the Hang Gliding google group "OnTour" he established "SouthernHangies" in October last year specifically to exclude me from the conversation. So when pilots post to that group - each time you press send - you do so in a way engineered by Luke such that I cannot hear and have no chance to voice my thoughts in the way I enjoyed to do on the old group." As one of the two moderators (the other is not Luke by the way) of the SouthernHangies group I would like to ensure everyone is aware of the actual situation. SouthernHangies formed initially as a means of communication for 3 pilots who were dissatisfied that the OnTour group had become out of control with no one being held to account for unacceptable behaviour. It was not set up with the intention of replacing OnTour or excluding anyone, we just needed a convenient way of contacting each other about where to fly without having to cc other email addresses each time we typed. What we didn't expect was the flood of requests from almost the entire HG community to come and join us! This was the community voting with their feet because they were dissatisfied too. There was no campaign against OnTour, you or anybody... it was individuals making their own decisions under their own free will based on the atmosphe...
Ian White30th Mar 05:37: ...re that had been engineered on that group. We don't go farming for members on SH, people come to us and we have the most harmonious atmosphere of any group I know. One thing that was discussed when we realised it was snowballing was what to do if you asked to join. It was agreed that if you asked to join then you should be allowed to with no moderation restrictions imposed. We have never refused anyone entry or had to remove posts because of bad feeling and don't intend to start now however if anyone was to join and denegrate it into what OnTour became then at least now we are able to make the harmony of the Southern Club HG community the priority it should have been and let the democracy reign. Exclusion from SouthernHangies has always only ever been your assumption... you never asked! Since the birth of the SouthernHangies group HG in the Southern Club has grown into a very healthy position with a superb atmosphere with one exception. Isn't it time to resolve that exception?