Pod harness safety
It seems the DHV are now addressing the issues of paragliding pod harnesses with dodgey reserve systems, back protectors, etc. and their inappropriate use by recreational pilots.
Their report is at http://www.dhv.de/web/en/safety/articles-statistics/pod-harness-test
Reserves and back protectors are just the glaring problems with some of these harnesses. There are numerous other areas in which some of these types are found wanting and I expect the DHV will get on the case in due course.
The taking off with the leg straps undone problem can only truly be solved when everyone does a proper pre-flight check before every launch.
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Read DHV reports with interest, but take with a pinch of salt!
Whenever reading any supposedly 'unbiased report' by the DHV pilots should always bear in mind that they DHV have repeatedly proved themselves to be just as prone to bias and prejudice as anyone else can be, and often more so, generally with a hidden commercial agenda behind this.
For example, for years the DHV did everything it could to stop the introduction of the current European controlled CEN paraglider certification standard (EN), just to protect it's own DHV controlled paraglider certification standard (LTF/DHV) which they received great commercial gain from as it was effectively a DHV controlled certification monopoly. In so doing it seems to me that the DHV greatly slowed the positive development of paragliders for some years; certainly paraglider development seemed to leap forwards when the new EN standard came into being.
Even nowadays whenever they conduct tests or reports, the DHV generally seem to look somewhat favourably on products made by DHV-friendly manufacturers, and seek to find (often somewhat suspect) fault with others with whom they have an axe to grind - often because that manufacturer has dared to question or disagree with the DHV at some point. DHV reports seem to generally 'prove' what the DHV wanted to prove in the first place: they are right (and very clever); everyone else is wrong (and very stupid).
If the DHV had their way, every pilot would have a DHV nanny (paid for by the pilot) following them around everywhere making sure they did everything the DHV way, and generally stopping them having too much fun. For example, the DHV have even banned anyone from doing aerobatics in Germany, even if they do it far away from anyone else.
You canne' change the laws of physics.
As far as I can see the DHV are are, in their Germanic style, just doing their job and following up recent incidents and the current trend for punters to fly race harnesses (to use the old fashioned parlance).
The effect on collapse behaviour caused by changing the polar moment of inertia is a fact. I wouldn't suggest trying it for real, but watch a few siv courses or play with a spinny chair and it's obvious.
On back protectors, Energy = (force) times (distance). Bigger = better.
Parachutes that are easy to throw are better than tricky ones.
Parachute bridles on the shoulders that put the victim in a PLF positon are better than on the hang points and crashing seated.
etc, etc.
You canne' change the laws of physics.
Every year plenty of people forget to pre-flight check and launch without strapping in. However much we bang on about pre-flight checks, it still happens. Those annoying strap gadgets must have already saved lots of lives.
You canne' change the laws of mass psychology either, just find ways round them.
Ecomomics isn't my field, but I can't see how their investigations can favour one manufacturer over another - they all make much the same product lines. Even to my engineering mind though, I can see that all the harness makers have an incentive to sell more "premium product" race harnesses: 40% mark-up on a £700 harness is a lot more attractive than 40% on a £300 basic model...
Fortunately, we're not compelled to follow what the DHV has to say, but it's great to have a gang of German engineers doing this work and publishing their results for us to use as we see fit. Knowledge = power.
Knowledge only = power if you have the right knowledge.
Knowledge only = power if you have the right knowledge. Wrong knowledge (of which there is a huge abundance nowadays) just creates confusion and leads to wrong conclusions. You only have to look at any internet forum for a short amount of time to realise that. Misinformation is often worse than no information at all. Common sense often arrives at a better conclusion that a bunch of academic bureaucrats trying to prove just how clever they are (or at least appear to be) especially when they have a hidden agenda.
It is very easy to change the way in which you perform a test manoeuvre on a paraglider to give a very different result. The test pilot can therefore very easily affect how safe or dangerous any product appears to be. This is common knowledge in paragliding.
Pilots want to believe the information they can get for free from internet forums and DHV reports because it's suits them to do so ("Knowledge = Power"). A question to ask yourself is: If this information is so valuable then why are they giving it out for free? My point is that pilots should take what they read, including DHV reports, with a large pinch of salt. Personally, I do not trust what the DHV say in their reports because they have proved themselves to be blatantly biased and very misleading on many occasions.
As regards mark-ups, we don't get 40% on anything. Only people who sell cheap copy-cat crap might get something like that; that's why they sell it. Our % margin on higher value products is generally lower than for lower value products, so the difference is often not so great (and the cost risk to us is higher). If we have a better margin then we generally give our customer a better deal or part-ex anyway. In any case only an short-sighted Arthur Daley idiot would sell the wrong kit to someone just because they make a few quid more; they will lose more than they gain in the long term.
Better engineered products, made from better quality materials, and with more R&D testing time put in (usually the highest cost of all) generally cost more to produce, therefore you would expect them to cost more to buy. Nobody is forced to buy more expensive kit; they can always buy cheaper kit if they want to. Personally I like to have 100% confidence in my kit, and I've seen too many pilots get injured due to inferior kit, so I don't believe in cutting corners or false economies.
Carlo
You're dead right about
You're dead right about internet forums - always strong on discussion and very light on conclusions and facts. Also that we must have unmost confidence that we've got the right kit for the job, and just get on with the business of flying it.
Do you have any specific concerns about the DHV's harness tests, or any of the points for consideration raised in the Skywings harness article?
it`s the tests fault
These harnesses are made to pass the test not to be safe :(
not everyone sits all the way back in their harness and even if they do , will they still be there after being thrown around and splattered across a hill?
My independence pod harness ( see Andrew ) had a back protector that goes all the way under your bum and part way down the back of your legs plus up your back, now look at the dhv test pictures and you will see a "protector" that just covers the bit where they test :(
same with the reserve placements , it`s gone backwards , I thought the small of the back, hyperextend your spine when you fall on it placement had gone together with its associated twin ,knock your reserve handle off and its flapping in the wind behind you out of reach.
As Carlo said use common sense, and dont be a sheep.
To pod or not.
To Pod or not to Pod.
Loads of people now seem to be flying with pods, not just the top pilots, and all I have asked say they like flying with them, I have not yet tried one so I will not knock them however I do have a few questions I and I hope others will find useful.
1, How much more performance does a pod really give than say flying with a stirrup
2, Some say they have not got room for there flying boots and so now fly in trainers and I have noticed more and more flying in trainers over the last few years, is giving up the boots worth it.or have they just got the wrong pod.
3, When flying low close to the hill I like to get my legs down ready for a landing (even though I may not be intending to land), and also to PLF if I have to. does a pod make this more difficult or not.
4, I have been told that flying in a pod makes people feel safer, Are they safer though ?
5, When it gets rough I like to get my legs in to reduce oscillation , can this be done so easily in a pod.
informed choice
1.Harnesses contribute to parasitic drag, so at low speed there's little to be gained, at high speed you'll notice the difference. The key is reducing frontal area, so it only works if aligned with the glide ratio, which changes with speed.
2. They've either bought the wrong size, or deliberately chosen to reduce frontal area by having a small foot plate. Boots protect feet and help walk away from a landing in silly places.
3. With practice it's easy enough to get in and out. There's a small period of risk when getting in just after launch. Ground handling and kiting isn't as easy as with a standard harness. Extra gubbins can go wrong and tangles after launch are more likley.
4. Definatly not safer. The lying down position increases moment of inertia in yaw which makes collapse behaviour worse and line twists more likley. Additionally most designs have compromised back protectors and reserve systems, more risk of missing problems like undone leg straps, more gubbins to go wrong, etc.
5. Tucking in at the right moment to control inertia is a necessary skill. When it's really frisky it's very hard to stay in the right place. A few designs an be locked in the upright position (karmasutra, possibly others) but that's not practically possible when it's all going wrong.
In the world of pods there are some more XC oriented types with more drag but less compromises (shamane, karmasutra, etc) and some really extreme specialist kit like the advance lightness.
Pods are good for XC hounds and comp pilots who don't take off and land very often, need the best performance and spend all day flying high, cold and fast.
Penguin invasion
2. They've either bought the wrong size, or deliberately chosen to reduce frontal area by having a small foot plate. Boots protect feet and help walk away from a landing in silly places.
I have flown pod harnesses for about 11 years. I can always wear boots, and usually do. Any harness which prevents the wearing of adequate boots is dangerous.
3. With practice it's easy enough to get in and out. There's a small period of risk when getting in just after launch. Ground handling and kiting isn't as easy as with a standard harness. Extra gubbins can go wrong and tangles after launch are more likley.
But pods are less hassle and less risk of tangles than a stirrup harness...
4. Definatly not safer. The lying down position increases moment of inertia in yaw which makes collapse behaviour worse and line twists more likley.
Of course you don't have to lie fully supine. There are a range of pods with widely differing geometry. The only common factor is that you stick your feet out, which many people do in a harness without even a stirrup! There is no reason not to bring your legs down under your seat if turbulence is anticipated.
The interesting issue is that of changes in polar moment of inertia about both yaw and roll axes caused by changes in the pilots body positioning. These occur in all harnesses to a greater or lesser degree dependent upon the whim of the pilot.
Additionally most designs have compromised back protectors and reserve systems, more risk of missing problems like undone leg straps, more gubbins to go wrong, etc.
Again the market offers choice. Injuries from paragliding do not typically include shear injuries to the upper back, but at least one club member is in a wheelchair now as a result of putting a rock in his harness. Most of the new pods address the strap issue quite well nowadays.
A few designs an be locked in the upright position (karmasutra, possibly others) but that's not practically possible when it's all going wrong.
Don't set fully supine in the first place. I fly with about a 40 degree back angle, so I can see where I am going.
In the world of pods there are some more XC oriented types with more drag but less compromises (shamane, karmasutra, etc) and some really extreme specialist kit like the advance lightness.
Quite so. P.S. anyone want to buy a lightness, one careful owner?
Pods are good for XC hounds and comp pilots who don't take off and land very often, need the best performance and spend all day flying high, cold and fast.
But once getting in and out has been mastered they should take little more effort than getting out of a standard harness and should be easier to get into. Consequently I find the pod is also great for messing about on the ridge. The extra warmth in flight helps concentration and the ability to fly in shorts keeps me cooler on the hill.
That said, I believe that no pilot with less than 1000 hours should buy a pod nor a glider with better than a 6:1 glide ratio & a sink rate of 1.5 m/s minimum. That way I'll have a bit more space up there ;)
SteveP
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AIRWORKS PARAGLIDING & HANG GLIDING
The Old Station
Glynde
BN8 6SS
info@airworks.co.uk
www.airworks.co.uk
Protection
Motorcyclists are all familiar with wearing armoured clothing.
There's a whole range of gear that can be bought from motorcyclists' shops and I'm especially thinking of back protectors that can be had independantly of any jacket or suit. The Dainese segmented plastic armour appeals to me somehow. http://www.motocentral.co.uk/Back-Protection_B24SKH.aspx
It would seem to me to be sensible to buy a flying harness that does the flying bit in the way you want and to purchase the protective stuff separately.
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"We should all have our heads examined"
"That's rule number four!"
Body armour
Sadly, motorbike body armour is very akin to the kind of protection we had in the early days. It is designed to deal with lateral impacts to the spine and sliding along the road. In the sort on impacts we see in paragliding these protectors were shown to raise the incidence of flail chest injuries, hence the development of the modern soft back protectors with very thick airbags, be they foam or air filled.
TTFN
SteveP
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AIRWORKS PARAGLIDING & HANG GLIDING
The Old Station
Glynde
BN8 6SS
info@airworks.co.uk
www.airworks.co.uk
Bungees are the answer
"3. With practice it's easy enough to get in and out. There's a small period of risk when getting in just after launch. Ground handling and kiting isn't as easy as with a standard harness. Extra gubbins can go wrong and tangles after launch are more likley."
I found it very hard to get in (not to get out) when first flying in my pod. I then copied Ian Grayland's bungee connection from a pod strap to the bootlace. This solved the problem instantly; it's still easy to get out, and to run, and to fly the glider with my legs down. I can't see any disadvantages (although this may change if you one day see me bouncing along upside down into the trees behind the Dyke, attached to a paraglider only by a bungee and my bootlace). On big hills in the Alps, where you probably take off only once on most days, it's a minor hassle (and risk) to take one or both hands off the controls to help your feet into the pod, as I saw several pilots do at St Andre. In Sussex, where a moment's distraction after launch can put you at the bottom of the hill - or worse, into another glider - I need to know I can get my feet in whenever I want to. The bungee does this, every time.
Interestingly, quite a high proportion of pilots on EN Cs and even Ds at St Andre were not using pods, whereas here they seem to have been widely adopted by most serious XC pilots, as well as by wannabes like me on my EN B.
knickers
knicker elastic from foot to stirrup is also good for locating and controlling errant stirrups too. A loop in the end through which you pass your foot is probably better than a clip to the boot laces - less to go wrong and likley to pull away before it drags you up the hill (been there, got the cow pat stains to prove it.)
Pod or not to Pod, that is the question...
1, How much more performance does a pod really give than say flying with a stirrup
With speed bar on, it's noticeably more efficient. At trim, less so.
2, Some say they have not got room for there flying boots and so now fly in trainers and I have noticed more and more flying in trainers over the last few years, is giving up the boots worth it.or have they just got the wrong pod.
They have the wrong pod. The first one I tried I didn't like at all. I couldn't wear boots because they caught on the material when applying speed bar. My ankles need boots.
3, When flying low close to the hill I like to get my legs down ready for a landing (even though I may not be intending to land), and also to PLF if I have to. does a pod make this more difficult or not.
If's not difficult if you have warning - you can put your boots half out when close to the ground. But, yes, I have been caught out a few times by sudden sink, and landed still inside the pod.
4, I have been told that flying in a pod makes people feel safer, Are they safer though ?
I've never felt safer in a pod - I don't know where that idea came from.
5, When it gets rough I like to get my legs in to reduce oscillation , can this be done so easily in a pod.
You can put your legs down vertical, yes. But you do get rolled around more in a pod.
...and of course, the best thing - a pod is much, much warmer, esp in Winter.
Get the right pod - they are all very different. Try before you buy!