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Hang gliding general :: RE: Alpha meets Atos

18 July, 2014 - 20:08
Author: HGXC
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:08 pm (GMT -8)

One thing that is occurring to me is that "speed" is directly related to competition. While there is no doubt that comps are about racing, for me speed and performance at speed is all about staying up, going xc and delivering a higher level of flying experience.

Its not VNE its the speed you are going before the curve drops off significantly. That's your cloud to cloud capability...see development and be there at a decent altitude to work it. Expend your search area for lift, cover more ground in the peak of day when when life is more predicable.

That's why PG never appealed to me, that's why I sort topless vs. king posted gliders. I know some very talented pilots are going miles in ideal conditions with PGs but day in day out they are terminally limited as a flying option.

Getting the ATOS to be lighter and quicker is the way to go. Creating a used market for dcells so they are available at a lower cost to a larger gliding market would be helpful.

Organ Donation Saves Lives

Glider = Ventus B. ATOS B-V, Rating = H5, Private Pilot /Glider

Hang gliding general :: RE: Canyonlands fly in 7/23-25

18 July, 2014 - 18:27
Author: TomGalvin
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:27 am (GMT -8)

I'll be there. Here's Jeff pioneering the Needles overlook site.


Hummingbird rancher

Hang gliding general :: RE: Alpha meets Atos

18 July, 2014 - 18:19
Author: knumbknuts
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:19 am (GMT -8)

There's definitely room for a hang glider that could fly in "normal" Torrey winds. I want to try the Alpha there.

I asked Steve Pearson if the Alpha would be good for Torrey. He replied that the T2C would be, due to sink rate. But, I am thinking something slow with plenty of margin of safety.

Sink rate and safety, not sink rate and speed, is my concern.

The camp fire :: RE: Things that make you laugh your ass off

18 July, 2014 - 18:10
Author: Fred Wilson
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:10 am (GMT -8)

84-Year-Old Man Surprises 'America's Got Talent' Judges with Naughty Original Song.


Thermaling Tips Wiki + Cross Country Coaching Manuals + RASP Wiki


Hang gliding general :: RE: H3 - H4 test preparation

18 July, 2014 - 18:08
Author: knumbknuts
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:08 am (GMT -8)


Corrected it in the post above. Lemme know any other errors.


Hang gliding general :: RE: H3 - H4 test preparation

18 July, 2014 - 18:06
Author: knumbknuts
Subject: Re: H3 Study Guide Correction
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:06 am (GMT -8)

Helix3 wrote: Gentle heads up - Answer to H3 Study Guide, Row 106 should perhaps be corrected to: "It decreases."

Oh yea, you'd think after all these years, I'd have fixed that.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Alpha meets Atos

18 July, 2014 - 17:27
Author: danmoser
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:27 am (GMT -8)

Jason wrote: danmoser wrote: Back on topic..

The Original Post by leesidelee makes an excellent point:
HG competition classifications stifle HG innovations by not allowing aerodynamic controls such as spoilerons in most categories.
It has to be weight shift only, or it has to compete in the classes with ATOSes, Swifts & Archaeopteryxs.
And so, flexwing HG manufacturers are exclusively producing ..
.. wait for it .. weight shift only designs!
{sarcasm} What a coincidence! {/sarcasm}.
When faced with the weight-shift-only HG design limitation, many HG pilots are switching to PGs, which have no such design limitations.

Let's see how various aerodynamic controls work on flexwings.
In effect, the floating crossbar already does wing-warping, to an extent.
Does anybody seriously think outlawing floating crossbars in certain HG competitions is a good idea?

there are tons of gliders that are not competion gliders, not one of them has these controls........

Exactly !! .. and because of that, another HG pilot just hung up his prone harness and switched to Paragliding.
Happy landings,
Dan Moser
Saturn 167, Predator 158, HES Cocoon, Bright Star SWIFT #37
Flying HGs (off & on) since 1975

Hang gliding general :: Canyonlands fly in 7/23-25

18 July, 2014 - 17:05
Author: CP
Subject: Canyonlands fly in 7/23-25
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:05 am (GMT -8)

Hi all,

We will be going to Canyonlands area to fly this Wed / Thurs. / Fri. 7/23-25

We'll be doing a small memorial for Jeff Davies and flying the two launches he pioneered. All are welcome.

For more info PM me


HangGliding.Org Events :: RE: Andy Jackson Airpark 20th Anniversary Fly-In 12 July, 2014

18 July, 2014 - 16:53
Author: Bobfly
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:53 am (GMT -8)

Sweet videos Knumbnuts. Wished I could have been there.
Looks like a good time was had by all.
Freedom 170 FR

Hang gliding general :: RE: Fly with a slightly dented keel?

18 July, 2014 - 16:42
Author: kjj3dan
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:42 am (GMT -8)

How about with a slightly dinged DT ?

The camp fire :: RE: Anyone like bikes

18 July, 2014 - 16:27
Author: Bobfly
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:27 am (GMT -8)

John C wrote: kjj3dan- sweet 441! BBJCaptain- love the Norton story. Thanks all for sharing. Great bikes. I drive a 1983 Suzuki GS 1100ED- brought home new (in the crate) from Japan when I was in the Navy.

I had an 82 GS 1100 and loved that bike. Eluded more cops on that bike then I
can remember. Actually had a male/female team assigned to catch me. They dragged
me out of a bar one night after my 15th time eluding them. That bike got me in more trouble, lol.........................Miss it though.
Freedom 170 FR

Hang gliding general :: Equipment storage and safety concerns

18 July, 2014 - 16:23
Author: red
Subject: Equipment storage and safety concerns
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:23 am (GMT -8)


Mark C. on the Yahoo Skysailtowing group (forum) has posted an interesting (alarming) message. It's about the unexpected deterioration of certain synthetic materials in some rope and straps, even though they were not exposed to sunlight or the elements. These items had disintegrated into short fibers, and dust. Can't say why this happened, but it did. All that to say, be sure to carefully inspect anything that has been stored for a while, even in good environments. His post was #8514 there, and it's worth reading.
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum

The camp fire :: RE: OK, this looks frikken cool!!

18 July, 2014 - 16:02
Author: Bobfly
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:02 am (GMT -8)

Taking some SERIOUS risks. Exciting video though.....
Freedom 170 FR

Hang gliding general :: RE: Alpha meets Atos

18 July, 2014 - 15:35
Author: ChattaroyMan
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:35 am (GMT -8)

Competition and glider design .....
What's stopping anyone from having a competition (or fly-in with tasks) that isn't about racing to a goal?

I've been toying with the idea of having a competition in our area designed for fun mostly. All landings to be made at a local LZ. No racing - other than to break a tie for an out and back distance optional task. A duration event or simply who can stay up for exactly 1 hour, 2 hours, etc. with launches made whenever the pilot would like to launch and safe landings stressed/scored such that pilots were not jeopardizing hitting exactly an hour interval flight time by flying dangerously (such as the landing needing a DW, B, Final, etc. and not obstructing other pilots - there would be a large LZ where more than one landing could occur at a time). A best launch award (all launches video taped). A landing competition regardless of time aloft - 'best' landing in the LZ with any ties being broken by location in the LZ (safest location for the current conditions). It would not be a sanctioned comp - just a fun comp for spectators and pilots. WARNING - this is just an idea. I need to garner one more launch location in the area I want to do this before I would tackle the work it would take to pull it off (so that all wind directions were covered for launching during the event time period). The whole premise of the event would be to make the most of the conditions and have tasks that can be entered for just plain sledder runs (launches and landings scored). A pilot could enter all events/tasks or pick just one task (such as launches or landings). All events/tasks would be open to all types of foot launched aircraft - would likely have to at least separate paras from hangs on the launch and landing judging though.
U2 160 • Chattaroy, WA - USA

Hang gliding general :: RE: Alpha meets Atos

18 July, 2014 - 15:02
Author: HGXC
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:02 am (GMT -8)

When we talk manufacturers we are referring to a few shops for 80% of the gliders out there.

If a shop or two doesn't want to commit to the R&D for controls or dcells or other advancements they can kill it.

I don't blame them too much as they need to make a living and HGing pilots are cheap.

I see middle class people spend thousands on snow mobiles and boats and camping gear all the time. They tow trailers full of machines with big pick up dualeys all over the state i live it.

Yet we feel if a glider costs more the 8k its crazy and a ripoff.

If you want R&D for advanced gliders then you will need to pay for it somehow.

I bought and ATOS 14 years ago at 9k and everyone told me how outrageous that was. Since then I flew that glider for 13 years and sold it for 4k.

Those same pilots went thru at least two-three T2c type of gliders and got little for them after 3-4 years.

I think i came out ahead and had better performance.

Organ Donation Saves Lives

Glider = Ventus B. ATOS B-V, Rating = H5, Private Pilot /Glider

Hang gliding general :: RE: Hams

18 July, 2014 - 02:58
Author: mgforbes
Subject: USHPA and transient business band frequencies
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:58 pm (GMT -8)

USHPA has a license to use five frequencies on a shared basis with others.
These five are in the "transient" pool in the business radio band, right above
the 144-148MHz amateur radio 2 meter band.

The only radios legal for use on these frequencies are those that are "type
accepted" for that purpose. They are programmed (these days) with a
computer and serial port, pre-set for frequency, output power, modulation and
a host of other parameters. These parameters cannot be set in the field. This
is deliberate; the intent is to have an easy-to-use radio with simple controls
that won't get the user into trouble. Pick a channel using the knob on top, push
the button on the side, talk into it. Simple to use, minimal training.

If your radio can be set to various frequencies via a keyboard or knob, has a
display to tell you what frequency you've chosen, runs on multiple bands, etc,
then it's probably a ham radio and therefore not a type-accepted radio which
is legal for use in the business band.

The intent is that a qualified radio tech will set things up properly, so you
don't have to worry about tuning to the wrong frequency or causing
interference with adjacent channels. On a ham radio, it's wide open and
you can do all sorts of things that cause problems for other users.

The five designated frequencies are shared with many other users, who are
supposed to be "transient:"....that is, not a fixed-base operation at a single
location. Think construction crews, farm harvesters, hunters and so on. If
a big-box store wants to use radios to direct staff to tasks, they really should
get a license for a dedicated channel. "Price check on aisle three!"


The Icom IC-F11 is an example of a legal biz-band radio that can also work
in the 2 meter ham band. They show up regularly on eBay. Programming
software is available on the web for download, and a programming cable
can be home-made, purchased, or modified from a USB-to-serial
cable adapter. Once programmed, everything is locked down solid.

For instance, I have the five USHPA authorized frequencies on mine, plus
the NOAA weather stations locally, the police and fire dispatch channels,
and a couple of ham radio repeaters. NOAA and public safety are set for
receive-only, since I never want to key up on those but do want to listen.
With 16 channels available on the knob, that's enough to handle my needs
for flying.

Mark G. Forbes
USHPA radio committee chair....among other things
Corvallis, Oregon

Hang gliding general :: RE: H3 - H4 test preparation

18 July, 2014 - 02:55
Author: DAVE858
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:55 pm (GMT -8)

Does an instructor have to proctor the test or can you just take it online, how does it work?

Hang gliding general :: RE: Alpha meets Atos

18 July, 2014 - 02:54
Author: danmoser
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:54 pm (GMT -8)

aeroexperiments wrote: * Red, isn't published Vne in hang gliders is pretty much meaningless, isn't it related to how fast the test rig will drive, or some default value in the DHV rules, or something like that?

* I've talked to 2 pilots who sewed spoilerons onto flex-wing hang gliders, worked great, good roll response even w/ VG full tight. Both deployed together brings you down fast. Get more information before you try this at home...


I'd like to hear more about this, Steve, as I've been wanting to experiment with that on my Predator.

To summarize:
The main reasons HG pilots switch to PGs - light, easy aerodynamic controls
The main reasons PG pilots switch to HGs - structure, speed

It seems obvious that a light HG that retains speed & structure, and adds easy aerodynamic controls would appeal to many !!!
Happy landings,
Dan Moser
Saturn 167, Predator 158, HES Cocoon, Bright Star SWIFT #37
Flying HGs (off & on) since 1975

Hang gliding general :: RE: H3 - H4 test preparation

18 July, 2014 - 02:21
Author: knumbknuts
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:21 pm (GMT -8)

Bumping from the depths because I can't really respond to the PMs in a timely fashion and the sensibilities that led me to ask for PMs has long since escaped me.