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Hang gliding general :: RE: Bank angle and time to complete a 360

16 May, 2017 - 18:59
Author: NMERider
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:59 am (GMT -8)

peterkoistinen wrote: ....I agree that it sure seems like the flex could turn tighter that the rigid, just not sure precisely why....
Hi Pete,
Here's why:
RW has longer wingspan which results in greater airspeed differential between inside and outside wings.
RW has far less maximum washout which results in easier tip-stalls and spin entry and the lift distribution is more evenly spread out over the longer wingspan.
FW has VG which enables the pilot to increase washout and thus re-balance lift to concentrate more toward the center.
FW is flexible and under G-loading from turn bank angle the tips will increase washout in addition to any VG change made by pilot.
Cheers,
Jonathan
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Software, Research & Technology :: RE: GoPro camera longevity

16 May, 2017 - 18:26
Author: klh
Subject: Hero 2 4-5 Years
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:26 am (GMT -8)

I got my Hero 2 at least 4.5 years ago and it is still going strong. Original battery still lasts about 2 hours at 1080p. No SD card issues. Only problems I've ever had were finding that it had switched on while going out to the flying site somehow (button getting pushed while harnesses in a pile) and turning it on but forgetting to start recording before launch.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Bank angle and time to complete a 360

16 May, 2017 - 17:22
Author: peterkoistinen
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:22 am (GMT -8)

Andy,

you wrote

"Of course, with a flex wing you'll be able to make a smaller circle at a given bank angle than a rigid."

why?

are we assuming the flex is flying slower than the rigid?

(Recall that turn rate and radius depend only upon bank angle and true airspeed. For example, at 30 degrees bank and 150 mph, a B 52 will have same turn rate and radius as a Cessna 172.)

or is there another factor in the flex vs. rigid turn radius comparison?

I agree that it sure seems like the flex could turn tighter that the rigid, just not sure precisely why.

That being said, so far, for me, the superior sink rate of the rigid more than makes up for the larger turn.

Also that being said, with my ATOS VQ, I 'm fully on the dark side now and not looking back. My T2 is gone, sold , don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Pete

Software, Research & Technology :: RE: GoPro camera longevity

16 May, 2017 - 16:58
Author: Jason
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:58 am (GMT -8)

I've had by gopro's from -140 feet to +18,000 feet, from below 0 degrees to well over 100 degrees


I always managed to lose them before they stop working.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Bank angle and time to complete a 360

16 May, 2017 - 16:42
Author: Karl_A
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:42 am (GMT -8)

You can observe a lot by watching. -Yogi Berra

A useful trick when you're on the ground is to pick a single glider - or bird - and watch it for several minutes. Don't take your eyes off it. Then you will see what it is really doing. Occasionally glancing at it isn't enough.

Flying Stories + Flight Reports :: RE: 200k Mothers Day Mother Lode XC !!!

16 May, 2017 - 16:17
Author: blindrodie
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:17 am (GMT -8)

Great write up. Enjoyed being with you the whole flight. It wasn't a whack if nobody saw it!!!!!!!!!!!


_________________
"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"

Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
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H.E.S. Q330
WW U2 145
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Help with the Fleg-2 Fleg-3 Airfoil

16 May, 2017 - 14:48
Author: TjW
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:48 am (GMT -8)

If you're using the Quicksilver tailboom approach, I would just attach the tailbooms to the top of the rear spar with a bracket.
This would let you set the decalage to pretty much anything you want using the rigging, though you'd probably want a compression/antidrag strut from the attach point to the noseplate.

Sketcth #3 is essentially how the Fledge 2b sail is built , except that the rear spar is in a pocket attached to the upper surface, at around 50% chord.
The double surface covers the pocket and spar, but it's nowhere near 100% double surface

Instead of wrapping around, and providing the chordwise tension, it just holds the upper surface (or only surface, on the original Fledge) down to the rear spar.

Using sophisticated ASCII art, the cross section of the pocket looks like:

\O/

The O is the rear spar.. You'll have to imagine the top surface of the sail, and that the slashes and underline actually are one piece, and the angles are somewhat shallower.

But anyway, I found 'em, I drew the three straight inner ribs on a piece of Mylar.
You are right about the sophistication of the airfoil.
Dave Cronk said the original airfoil for the Quicksilver was a "670-15". That is, they bent the ribs around a 670-15 tire.


Check your PMs, or PM me.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Bank angle and time to complete a 360

16 May, 2017 - 13:28
Author: waveview
Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:28 am (GMT -8)

Thermal flying can be very confusing unless the pilot gets a handle on vario lag and sensitivity settings. This recent discussion in the Oz report shows the debate is still on - It appears that other people have noticed that many vario's continue to indicate lift for a few seconds, even once the climb rate has dropped to zero.
http://ozreport.com/blog.php


Link

_________________
Don't let gravity get you down.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Selling wings (and other stuff) on the org

16 May, 2017 - 07:39
Author: mgforbes
Subject: Brooke so-called Coffey?
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:39 pm (GMT -8)

No such name listed in the USHPA database, either current or expired, under any spelling variant I could come up with. If he's a master-rated pilot, he was rated back at least 20 years ago, before we put the computer system into operation.

MGF

Hang gliding general :: RE: Help with the Fleg-2 Fleg-3 Airfoil

16 May, 2017 - 03:03
Author: Ground Slammer
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:03 pm (GMT -8)

This may help---------In the top sketch we see a side profile of a QS--the LE and TE are all but planar to the stabilizer except for theta- the stabilizer angle of incidence.

In sketch 2 a Fledge leading edge and rear spar are attached to the center tube---but note that the trailing edge of the airfoil drops below the center tube---a line from the LE to trailing edge, the 0 degree angle of attack puts the stabilizer boom way too high and the stabilizer angle of incidence too high (way too high).

In sketch 3 (drawn to scale) my solution solves this and the sail fits on a conventional QS frame. Note the TE detail.

One should also note that the king post, which needs to be paced as near the center of pressure as one can-- is not in a good place in #2. Because the wing is unswept there is too little triangulation from the KP to TE. The wire to the LE triangulates, and pulls the wing rearward. But the KP to TE wire has too little triangulation to effectively pull the wing forward--these two forces are needed, and must be in balance.

The main thing to note-that the sail I propose will fit to a QS frame- Strip the old sail ----- install the new sail and ribs NOTHING MORE-NOTHING!

I hope this help exsplanes (sic) my idea-there may be more than one way to skin a cat----my idea, the only frame changes are -are---are--well nothing! Beat that!

Hang gliding general :: RE: Hang Gliding Spectacular 2017

16 May, 2017 - 02:02
Author: Avnav8r
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:02 pm (GMT -8)

Hey,

Ryan, we will miss you there this year! I am sure ole Dad's gonna bring his Shock-o-rama again. Dave, I look forward to seeing you again and Peanuts, always good to see you out there in the sand!

John Stokes
_________________
To err is human. To blame it on someone else, shows management potential.

Flying Stories + Flight Reports :: RE: 200k Mothers Day Mother Lode XC !!!

16 May, 2017 - 00:59
Author: tizon
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:59 pm (GMT -8)

Its the standard friction system...I went with it on the recommendation of my mentor, there is nothing in the boot that you have to push off of . There is a bit more detail on this on the Woodey Valley website.
_________________
thermalcowboy.com

Flying Stories + Flight Reports :: RE: 200k Mothers Day Mother Lode XC !!!

16 May, 2017 - 00:41
Author: NMERider
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:41 pm (GMT -8)

http://thermalcowboy.com/


Which version of the Tenax 4 did you get? I see the dual pitch ropes but don't know whether it uses the friction rope in the middle or the steel rod with the foot adjustment.
_________________
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Help with the Fleg-2 Fleg-3 Airfoil

15 May, 2017 - 19:18
Author: TjW
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:18 am (GMT -8)

Ground Slammer wrote: Thank you TJW- I can tell there is a little confusion as to how I'm looking at putting the sail on the QS.
Imagine the Fleg 2 sail made rectangular. Now add a trailing edge pocket at the rear of the sail--one that folds around a 1 inch tube and then comes around the bottom and is sewn several inches up from the trailing edge -so to have the air flow smooth. This becomes a second zone of double surface- very thin. I'll add a smaller diameter tube to the back edge of the trailing edge tube-when the fabric wraps around the two tubes the rear edge becomes a streamline shape. The second tube is non structural just to give the trailing edge taper.

Now you may note that this means some of the compression struts length runs outside the bottom of the fabric! But no zippers-small price to pay. Also one can try to collapse the wing via the Fleg 1 way-much slicker, quicker, and lighter than the Fleg 2 way. Finally the bottom surface of the wing get a three planar undercamber this way!!! I can use the angles and widths of the 3 zones to create a undercamber that approximates a curvetilinear one.
The Fleg 2 sail is one of the hardest sails to make-the easiest of all was the Quicksilver B. Back in the day one got a kit with no sail and instructions on how to sew one up. The difference between the original QS sail and the one I'm contemplating---- almost nothing-just the pocket widths.
I would like to keep this short and I don't have sketches ready yet, but I came to work saw TJW response andI wished to respond to him.
TJ- the ribs I am interested in are center to midspan-they are flat as a board from about 20% back all the way to their end. They are if I remember correctly, 45 degrees of arc with a 1.5 foot radius. PM me after you find they and we'll hook up.

I think you're over-complicating the structure. The Fledge and every high performance blade wing ever built do just fine with the ribs supporting a fabric trailing edge. If you don't want to deal with the double surface, then just make it single surface.




But I'll poke around in the garage attic.

Software, Research & Technology :: RE: GoPro camera longevity

15 May, 2017 - 19:06
Author: remmoore
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:06 am (GMT -8)

RobertKesselring wrote: Looking at replacing the GoPro with a Contour.

Link


One of my local flying buddies has an earlier version of the Contour that he's been using since 2008 or 2009. Anybody else have experience with these?

I have one of the earlier HD models. For me, it's great because I can easily start/stop video recording manually. I reach out to the camera mounted on a short (18") arm and slide the big recording button to the On position. Very easy while wearing gloves to start or stop recording without using a remote.

Image quality is good, but I don't know if it's the absolute best. I don't do anything special with my video footage, but it's very easy to have simple footage of my flights.

RM

Flying Stories + Flight Reports :: 200k Mothers Day Mother Lode XC !!!

15 May, 2017 - 18:53
Author: tizon
Subject: 200k Mothers Day Mother Lode XC !!!
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:53 am (GMT -8)

LOTS of FIRST on this flight....first flight in a pod, first 100 miler....
Full write up and photos here
http://thermalcowboy.com

_________________
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Software, Research & Technology :: RE: GoPro camera longevity

15 May, 2017 - 18:09
Author: AIRTHUG
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:09 am (GMT -8)

NMERider wrote: In GoPro's defense, I have recorded over 2,000 hours of video and ~250,000 still photos between 3 HD Hero and 2 Hero2 cameras. The earlier cameras are more reliable than the Hero4 camera I own but the video image quality of the 4 is really pleasing.
Another perspective- Jono's GoPros get broken WAY less than the hang gliders they're mounted to









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Shut up and fly.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Selling wings (and other stuff) on the org

15 May, 2017 - 17:39
Author: blindrodie
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:39 am (GMT -8)

Oh did that. Did not check though. Says he's master rated and all the good stuff. Still not buyin' it...Won't do the deal as I require. We'll see what happens now.

You listening now Brooke? Send me your address and I'll take care of OK?


_________________
"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"

Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
Guggenmos E7
H.E.S. Q330
WW U2 145
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
Tracer Plus
Organ Donor

Hang gliding general :: RE: Selling wings (and other stuff) on the org

15 May, 2017 - 17:30
Author: magicpotato
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:30 am (GMT -8)

I usually ask for their USHPA number right away if I suspect a scam. That usually shuts them up really quick!

Software, Research & Technology :: RE: GoPro camera longevity

15 May, 2017 - 17:29
Author: NMERider
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:29 am (GMT -8)

In GoPro's defense, I have recorded over 2,000 hours of video and ~250,000 still photos between 3 HD Hero and 2 Hero2 cameras. The earlier cameras are more reliable than the Hero4 camera I own but the video image quality of the 4 is really pleasing. I need to start using with the ProTune and see whether it's worth the extra editing time and effort.

The Org's biggest GoPro cheerleader, Relate2 AKA: Robert Seckold would have had something interesting to add this this discussion. Not to go far OT but many of us are in our 50's and 60's with a lifetime of sun exposure. Please keep an eye on your skin for suspicious looking areas that could be precursors to melanoma. Here's why: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29741

Okay, back to the action camera discussion.
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