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Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 21:30
Author: slimchance
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:30 pm (GMT -8)

android glitch
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 21:30
Author: slimchance
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:30 pm (GMT -8)

The OPERATOR should have noticed the pressure increase long before the pilot was in trouble. Only the tow OPERATOR had a chance to save him from a crash.

Tim
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 20:16
Author: brian scharp
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:16 pm (GMT -8)

Quote: The resultant becomes LESS if you continue to remove the vertical force (in this case - move the glider towards the ground). So, at any given initial condition that brings on a lockout - as long as the glider is diving towards the ground - the force in line with the tow rope will be LESS than that.
Since a lockout occurs when a glider is not traveling inline with the tow, I don't understand how the tension could become less. What happens if the ground doesn't get in the way?

Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 19:22
Author: mbadley
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:22 am (GMT -8)

If you think of the physics of the motion - and simplify the forces to a wedge shaped triangle with the winch point at the toe and the glider at the top of the heel with the ground at the bottom of the heel - the force on the glider is the resultant of both a horizontal and vertical component of that force. The resultant becomes LESS if you continue to remove the vertical force (in this case - move the glider towards the ground). So, at any given initial condition that brings on a lockout - as long as the glider is diving towards the ground - the force in line with the tow rope will be LESS than that. (Assuming of course that the winch doesn't add any additional load by pulling even harder). If the weak link didn't break BEFORE the on-set of a lockout - it is not likely to break during the dive to the ground.

That is why those regallo kid's kites can (sometimes) recover from those swoopy dives without crashing into the ground.
_________________
There are 2 types of gliders - those that have been whacked.... and those that haven't been flown yet.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 18:14
Author: brian scharp
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:14 am (GMT -8)

Quote: Rather than building up a resistive tension (which WOULD break a weaklink) the lock-out forces accelerate a glider in a direction that will 'shorten' the tow length (or reduce the tension) The faster the glider accelerates the 'less' force there is on the rope.
I thought it was just the opposite.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Intro

25 August, 2014 - 17:37
Author: Overcomer
Subject: Re: Free Time and passion.
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:37 am (GMT -8)

red wrote: Overcomer wrote: Roadrunner wrote: Welcome to the Club Mike:
It sounds like you are a new-Be. If so, here is some good advice for you: Quit now, while you still have a chance to walk away from Free-Flight. For once you contract the Free-Flight Bug, you will be forever looking towards the Sky wishing to return.
And best of luck finding a new (PASSION) so as to spend your Free-Time.
Good-By: the Big Guy I will not accept your advise. LOL Overcomer,
. . . Okay then, you can have some of mine, instead. Click the link:



Excellent link red! I will digest. Thanks...

Hang gliding general :: RE: Intro

25 August, 2014 - 17:03
Author: red
Subject: Re: Free Time and passion.
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:03 am (GMT -8)

Overcomer wrote: Roadrunner wrote: Welcome to the Club Mike:
It sounds like you are a new-Be. If so, here is some good advice for you: Quit now, while you still have a chance to walk away from Free-Flight. For once you contract the Free-Flight Bug, you will be forever looking towards the Sky wishing to return.
And best of luck finding a new (PASSION) so as to spend your Free-Time.
Good-By: the Big Guy I will not accept your advise. LOL Overcomer,
. . . Okay then, you can have some of mine, instead. Click the link:


_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum

Hang gliding general :: RE: Intro

25 August, 2014 - 16:59
Author: Roadrunner
Subject: Setting the Hook
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:59 am (GMT -8)

I should of taken my advise years ago. Now I am screwed, for the flying hook is set so deep. L-O-L

Hang gliding general :: RE: Indian Valley Flight report for Aug. 23rd

25 August, 2014 - 16:58
Author: GerryP
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:58 am (GMT -8)

Yup, a beautiful weekend in Indian Valley. On Saturday, Mike and I climbed above 13.7K (Mike got to 13.9K) and crossed to Hough and back. Smooth lift. Visiting pilot from LA flew a rented Falcon (want to add H3, and don't do that in high winds). A nice night at camp Dave, with birds, donkeys, cows and horses telling us good morning. We had breakfast at Anna's cafe - found out the Oak Grove Motor Lodge in Greenville is now owned by a hang gliding couple (Greg from Lookout Mtn?).

video is a hack, but gives you an idea ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E754gEfBEI&feature=youtu.be

Hang gliding general :: RE: Intro

25 August, 2014 - 15:45
Author: Overcomer
Subject: Re: Free Time and passion.
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:45 am (GMT -8)

Roadrunner wrote: Welcome to the Club Mike:

It sounds like you are a new-Be. If so, here is some good advice for you: Quit now, while you still have a chance to walk away from Free-Flight. For once you contract the Free-Flight Bug, you will be forever looking towards the Sky wishing to return.

And best of luck finding a new (PASSION) so as to spend your Free-Time.

Good-By: the Big Guy

I will not accept your advise. LOL

Hang gliding general :: RE: Intro

25 August, 2014 - 15:35
Author: Roadrunner
Subject: Free Time and passion.
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:35 am (GMT -8)

Welcome to the Club Mike:

It sounds like you are a new-Be. If so, here is some good advice for you: Quit now, while you still have a chance to walk away from Free-Flight. For once you contract the Free-Flight Bug, you will be forever looking towards the Sky wishing to return.

And best of luck finding a new (PASSION) so as to spend your Free-Time.

Good-By: the Big Guy

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Wild aerotow ride-

25 August, 2014 - 15:34
Author: mbadley
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:34 am (GMT -8)

I had an Aeros Stealth for a short period - found they were VERY easy to PIO on. I think the bar position in trim for the Aeros line is much further forward than Wills or Moyes, so if that's what you're used to - you'll fly an Aeros too fast.

Pilot's inputs were bumps and not all that exaggerated, to the good - but if you're flying too fast, you're just not going to stop those PIO's.
_________________
There are 2 types of gliders - those that have been whacked.... and those that haven't been flown yet.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Intro

25 August, 2014 - 15:14
Author: Overcomer
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:14 am (GMT -8)

ChattaroyMan wrote: Overcomer wrote: ChattaroyMan,

Funny you say that...I was looking at his web site yesterday. I'm very familiar with Pickens in that I lived in Tonasket for several years. That would be a beautiful flight off Palmer! Seems like that one runs south north if I recall? Sure would want some good wind direction on that one. As far as the Omak site...give me a ring and I would like to take you out on the Reservation to a spot I can see from my house. You would be able to launch looking SE at Omak and come out over the Okanogan take a right towards Riverside and work that awesome rocky ledge back and forth until your completely content!! I will PM you my number and give me a ring for maybe a weekend trip up the hill...

The launch I'll likely use on Palmer faces WNW. If I couldn't climb out I'd land at either end of the lake. First attempt there was spoiled by rain - just as I was getting the glider off the rig. Next attempt we ran short of time and scored Pickens.
I'm sure that SW facing rock slope along the Okanogan really kicks ass (lots of rock facing right at the Sun in the afternoon). Should make an interesting place to try out in the Fall. There's a chance I'll be up your way during the first week of October. Will keep ya posted. Hope you connect with Dale for lessons. He's a VERY good instructor. Patience is the key in learning this sport - that and being available when the weather is too. Got your PMed # so will be sure to connect whenever I may be heading your direction.
Steve

Great Steve. See you possibly in October.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Tragic Wingsuit Flight

25 August, 2014 - 15:01
Author: ChattaroyMan
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:01 am (GMT -8)


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U2 160 • Chattaroy, WA - USA

Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 14:58
Author: mbadley
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:58 am (GMT -8)

If you understand the physics of the lock-out, you see that it is the 'relief' of force in the direction of the tow line. Rather than building up a resistive tension (which WOULD break a weaklink) the lock-out forces accelerate a glider in a direction that will 'shorten' the tow length (or reduce the tension) The faster the glider accelerates the 'less' force there is on the rope. That is WHY a lockout condition will not break weak-links. Once IN a lockout position, the pilot has LITTLE ability to change that force direction or stop the acceleration.

That is WHY it is so important to get off of a bad tow immediately - while you still have some rational thought instead of the 'oh s***' paralysis that rides the lockout into the ground.

Trust in your winch crew - but trust in yourself more. Train from DAY ONE to get off a bad tow. The annoyance and frustration of resetting is far more worth it than testing your lock-out response.
_________________
There are 2 types of gliders - those that have been whacked.... and those that haven't been flown yet.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Wild aerotow ride-

25 August, 2014 - 02:58
Author: Wonder Boy
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:58 pm (GMT -8)

Too many cameras, not enough pilot.....
_________________
Mike

Everyone who lives dies, yet not everyone who dies, has lived.
We take these risks not to escape life, but to prevent life escaping us.


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Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 02:54
Author: thermalfinder
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:54 pm (GMT -8)

davisstraub wrote: As we've discussed many times here, lockouts don't prevent weaklinks.

Yeah. Exhibit A: the video featured in the first posting oin this thread

Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 02:43
Author: davisstraub
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:43 pm (GMT -8)

As we've discussed many times here, lockouts don't prevent weaklinks.
_________________
Davis Straub at the Oz Report

Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 02:14
Author: michael170
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:14 pm (GMT -8)

davisstraub wrote: Quote: The weak-link did not prevent this lockout.

Weaklinks don't prevent lockouts, as we have discussed numerous times.

Sure they do. Just read the Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association, Published by idiot Matt Taber:


Quote: HANG GLIDING FOR BEGINNER PILOTS
By Peter Cheney
Published by Matt Taber
Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association

Flight Tip:

One of the biggest dangers in towing is the lock-out. In a lock-out, the tension of the line overpowers the pilot's control authority, and the glider rolls hard to one side. If the pilot fails to correct, the glider may dive and roll to the ground.

Lockouts usually happen when a pilot allows the glider to roll too far off heading, so that the tow line is pulling the glider at a sharp angle.

Lockouts can be prevented by using good technique, light tow pressures, and appropriately-sized weak links--if you get too far off heading, and a lockout begins to develop, a proper weak link will break and release you from tow.
if you don't believe me.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Lockout

25 August, 2014 - 02:00
Author: thermalfinder
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:00 pm (GMT -8)

davisstraub wrote: Quote: The weak-link did not prevent this lockout.
Weaklinks don't prevent lockouts, as we have discussed numerous times.

Because...lockouts don't necessarily produce enough force.
Segway: we always have/had pilots test weak link properties
by forcing the issue i.e. pushing out hard to force a breakage
to experience the effect(s). Also good to practice release &
early-release to see what happens. I'm preaching to the
choir. - Jim