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Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 02:25
Author: mgforbes
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:25 pm (GMT -8)

If you're working for ACA (Torrey) in any capacity, you're not authorized to fly under our tandem exemption. If you're a T1, then you'd only be flying recreationally with other rated pilots, and you would not be taking compensation for the flight or operating as an instructor, so therefore would not be working for ACA. You might be flying at the site, but so long as you're not employed or contracting for them, that's fine.

As mentioned earlier, we have to request that FAA renews our tandem exemption every two years. In that renewal letter, we must discuss significant accidents, injuries, fatalities and other factors that relate to our tandem operations. The justification for issuing the exemption in the first place is that it promotes flight safety by giving students a way to train alongside an instructor, as is done typically in other sectors of aviation. That's why tandem instructional flights must have some at-least-basic elements of flight instruction, and are not simply joyrides.

A school openly defying the rules and the requirements of the exemption is one such factor that must be disclosed, along with USHPA's response to that behavior. The same goes for other significant incidents; we have revoked some instructor appointments, and in two cases the tandem instructors were fatally injured. One of those accidents killed the student too, and in the other case the student safely landed the glider after the instructor slipped out of the harness due to failure to hook in leg straps.

MGF

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 02:14
Author: Jason
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:14 pm (GMT -8)

designbydave wrote: Jason wrote: My only question is

What about people that aren't part of ACA, and just want to show up and fly.....

The wording of the USHPA email states that all tandems are grounded at Torrey:

Quote: In addition, USHPA's Tandem Instructor Certification is NOT VALID for tandem flights taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport
but all i have is a T1......
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 02:03
Author: designbydave
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:03 pm (GMT -8)

Jason wrote: My only question is

What about people that aren't part of ACA, and just want to show up and fly.....

The wording of the USHPA email states that all tandems are grounded at Torrey:

Quote: In addition, USHPA's Tandem Instructor Certification is NOT VALID for tandem flights taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport
_________________
-Dave Aldrich

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 01:53
Author: davisstraub
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:53 pm (GMT -8)

I'm going to predict that Torrey Pines (ACA) will not be able to have their own tandem exemption outside the USHPA, so that tandem instruction will not take place there until the USHPA is ready to let it happen there.

What would Bob say?
_________________
Davis Straub at the Oz Report

Hang gliding general :: RE: Flying restarted after two years

29 September, 2016 - 01:47
Author: RBT
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:47 pm (GMT -8)

As a learner, I found Ken's advice helpful and reinforces what we have drummed into us as part of training. In fact what he says pretty much is, in a nutshell, the launching technique we are taught - set the correct AOA and run "through" the launch. And don't worry about getting into pods/stirrups etc until you are well clear of the hill.
I will have a guess at the reasons why people move away from this technique: concern it doesn't look as cool to have legs dangling for a while after launch; competition pilots would be wanting to minimise drag as much as possible. I note that in a lot of the vids of John Heiney launching, he doesn't bother with trying to look cool and does it the correct/safe way. A good thread on setting the correct AOA can be found below. Good luck with the comeback.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=390086

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 01:46
Author: Jason
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:46 pm (GMT -8)

My only question is

What about people that aren't part of ACA, and just want to show up and fly.....
_________________
TSA, NSA Sieg Heil! (HAIL VICTORY)

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 01:42
Author: red
Subject: Re: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:42 pm (GMT -8)

sg wrote: Just got the email. WHOA. Can they still fly tandems in any way at all?
They have their own insurance. What are all the implications here? Campers,

Insurance is no part of the issue. Without the USHPA exemption, tandem ultralight flight (anywhere in the USA) is illegal at the federal level. Part 103 only allows the operation of single occupant ultralights. Outside of Part 103, there are numerous requirements for aircraft certifications, inspections, registration, and FAA pilot licensing. TP would have to pursue their own FAA exemption, pertaining to Part 103.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=af91996936137e03daa11e58ec0bc6a9&mc=true&node=pt14.2.103&rgn=div5#se14.2.103_11
Source: Docket No. 21631, 47 FR 38776, Sept. 2, 1982, unless otherwise noted.

Subpart A—General

§103.1 Applicability.
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that:

(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant;
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum 'chute

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rotor Harness USA

29 September, 2016 - 01:34
Author: seb
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:34 pm (GMT -8)

Maybe Ryan can get a video of transition to upright position on his new harness. The Havana looks pretty nice!

The camp fire :: RE: what is your weird and strange hobby

29 September, 2016 - 01:29
Author: chetwynd
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:29 pm (GMT -8)

kv6m wrote: My hobby is pretending that my hobby is building guitars. It's a cover story for my other hobby of collecting woodworking tools that I never use.

Hilarious!

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 01:07
Author: flysurfski
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:07 pm (GMT -8)

Wow Robin finally bit the hand that feeds him. Very surprised...


Very interesting too that this is all coming at the same time the concession is up for bid with the city of San Diego ....


Time to crawl back under my rock when it comes to that place. Like the sand in an hour glass......
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 01:01
Author: JackieB
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:01 pm (GMT -8)

Nate and Dave are correct. The FAA granted the exemption to the USHGA (originally) and it has authority to offer or rescind that to members. No tandem operation is allowed without USHPA permission.

https://www.ushpa.org/page/faa-exemption-4721

Also, USHPA has to have the exemption extended every two years. Any concerns about compliance could jeopardize extension.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 00:55
Author: designbydave
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:55 pm (GMT -8)

Here's the actual tandem exemption document. https://www.ushpa.org/legacy/documents/original_exemption_4721.pdf

I suppose ACA could petition the FAA for their own exemption, however given their history and the wording of this document, I'd say that's a long shot.
_________________
-Dave Aldrich

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rotor Harness USA

29 September, 2016 - 00:54
Author: AIRTHUG
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:54 pm (GMT -8)

remmoore wrote: AIRTHUG wrote: ...And maybe the loud 'crack' sound when the slider trolley pops out of the machined bearing grooves when I rock upright.

Did Rotor change the slider mechanism, no longer using the slider bar? From your very brief description, it sounds like they went to a mechanism similar to the Covert. True?

RM

http://www.rotorharness.com/models.html
_________________
Gone flying.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 00:52
Author: BubbleBoy
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:52 pm (GMT -8)

gotandem wrote: They chose to continue without USHPA. I think that makes perfect sense for them.

Well currently it makes no sense since they can't tandem.

I have no idea if they can get their own exemption (I seriously doubt it).

JB

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 00:38
Author: AlaskanNewb
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:38 pm (GMT -8)

So is TP going to go get their own tandem exception?
Very interesting if they, and others, do exactly that. I believe PPG has one in place through their organization. I have often wondered if it is possible for an indevidual to get one. Interesting subject.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 00:32
Author: designbydave
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:32 pm (GMT -8)

_css_nate_ wrote: ...it appears not legal per federal regulation to fly a hang glider tandem without proper USHPA certification. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

This is my understanding of the Tandem Exemption, yes.
_________________
-Dave Aldrich

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 00:29
Author: _css_nate_
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:29 pm (GMT -8)

This is the key clause:

Quote: Under FAA Exemption 4721, all participants in two-place flight must have a pilot rating issued by USHPA.

So, the FAA recognizes USHPA in an official manner here and it appears not legal per federal regulation to fly a hang glider tandem without proper USHPA certification. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

29 September, 2016 - 00:12
Author: gotandem
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:12 pm (GMT -8)

They chose to continue without USHPA. I think that makes perfect sense for them.
_________________
www.cuhanggliding.com

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

28 September, 2016 - 23:35
Author: davisstraub
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:35 pm (GMT -8)

https://www.facebook.com/ozreport/posts/10154538524656085

Rescission of Authority Under Tandem Exemption

Torrey Pines shut down for tandem operations

The USHPA writes:

Effective September 27, 2016, and continuing until further notice, USHPA has rescinded its authorization for any pilot to conduct tandem flights pursuant to FAA Exemption 4721 when those flights are performed in connection with Air California Adventure, Inc. dba Torrey Pines Gliderport (whether as an employee, contractor, or in any other capacity).

In addition, USHPA's Tandem Instructor Certification is not valid for tandem flights taking place at Torrey Pines Gliderport or performed in connection with Air California Adventure, Inc. dba Torrey Pines Gliderport (whether as an employee, contractor, or in any other capacity).

USHPA’s decision is based on the following:

ACA's failure to provide USHPA with accident reports for all accidents occurring during 2015-16.

ACA's failure to cooperate with USHPA in investigation of accidents during 2015-16.

ACA has ceased issuing USHPA 30 day student memberships to participants when conducting tandem instructional flights.

Under FAA Exemption 4721, all participants in two-place flight must have a pilot rating issued by USHPA.

ACA is conducting tandem flights that do not comply with all of the operating conditions of FAA Exemption 4721 issued to USHPA for tandem instructional flights.
_________________
Davis Straub at the Oz Report

Hang gliding general :: RE: Torrey Pines Gliderport - Tandem Exemption pulled

28 September, 2016 - 23:35
Author: kukailimoku
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:35 pm (GMT -8)

It reads like it's just those guys. Whose corn flakes did they piss in?

That read like "you're out of business".
_________________
In the event of decompression oxygen masks will deploy from the the ceiling above your seat.

Untangling them will annoy you as you lose consciousness.