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Hang gliding general :: RE: How do you use your averager?

23 April, 2014 - 15:46
Author: pjwings
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:46 am (GMT -8)

Yes, I've heard of that method too

There are levels to it you see. First level is feeling the wing and the air. It's the instantaneous and constant live update of sensations feeding into the mental thermal picture. This is the primary tool.

Then there is the beeping of the vario. The beeps confirm what the inner ear is telling you, and give a more precise range to the climb rate. The beeps also help eliminate the fatal mistake of thinking you're climbing when in reality you just transitioned from -800 to -300 sink!

Finally is the averager. I don't really look at it that often, maybe once every 2 or 3 minutes. It comes into play after I've established a good climb and am looking to maximize it. Without the averager I can't usually tell if tightening the turn a little is netting me a better overall rate, etc. The other time the averager is really useful is when trying to climb in lift that is so narrow that part of the turn is in lift and the other part in sink. As Dave mentioned, this is often the case at an inversion. It's also often the case when catching a low climb on a high pressure day.

So yeah, you can do without an averager. You can even do without a vario. You should try to keep your ears and hands though. They are pretty essential.
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Tenax-3 Getting Upright

23 April, 2014 - 15:41
Author: Lucky_Chevy
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:41 am (GMT -8)

I loosened the leg straps a bit and practiced in the harness last night. I was able to get a little more upright by essentially sitting on the leg loops. I would definitely like to see pictures of leg loop modifications. The stock leg loops are fairly thin and do crush the gonads.

Second, I have the MR version of the harness which adds a friction device to the slider. I adjusted the device to reduce the amount of friction for now. I'm now able to rock upright fairly easily.

I know that practice is the key to any new piece of gear. I'm hoping to get out this weekend. I'll try to post some pictures.

Thanks for all the help,


Dan

Hang gliding general :: RE: Tenax-3 Getting Upright

23 April, 2014 - 15:22
Author: CAL
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:22 am (GMT -8)

moyesboy wrote: I have modified my leg loops for some separation from the gonads.
I sewed loops onto the back part of the leg stap that pass over the buckles so the part through the legs is separated. I will post a picture.

Loosening the leg loops so you slide down a bit in the harness gets you more upright - but not so much you get nipped under the arm pits and lose freedom of arm movement.

Here's a vid of me and Kathleen landing the same rx3.5 in our tenax 3 harnesses.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/Enggk5v2_jM[/youtube]

looking forward to see the pic, i just hung in the tenax and realize that some modification is necessary, thanks for the efforts that everyone is putting into this to help out!!
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Hang gliding general :: RE: How do you use your averager?

23 April, 2014 - 15:10
Author: Jason
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:10 am (GMT -8)

i just listen, the faster its beeping the better
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Hang gliding general :: RE: How do you use your averager?

23 April, 2014 - 15:07
Author: pjwings
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:07 am (GMT -8)

Yes, there is no doubt that the 15 second avg is a very loose number. 15 seconds in my middle of the road estimate... neither cranking up hard to ride a spring time monster, nor circling fat and lazy to stay high in a gentle autumn glass-off at sunset.
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http://vimeo.com/pjwings

Hang gliding general :: RE: How do you use your averager?

23 April, 2014 - 14:56
Author: TomGalvin
Subject: Re: How do you use your averager?
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:56 am (GMT -8)

pjwings wrote: For me a typical 360 takes approximately 15 seconds. My mental map is pretty accurate over the last 360 (15 seconds).

Have you played with climbs using tighter, steeper turns?
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Hummingbird rancher

Hang gliding general :: RE: paraglider collapse

23 April, 2014 - 14:54
Author: Scott MacLeod
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:54 am (GMT -8)

I thought that was politer than saying "didn't you read my very next sentence?"
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Tenax-3 Getting Upright

23 April, 2014 - 14:50
Author: moyesboy
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:50 am (GMT -8)

I have modified my leg loops for some separation from the gonads.
I sewed loops onto the back part of the leg stap that pass over the buckles so the part through the legs is separated. I will post a picture.

Loosening the leg loops so you slide down a bit in the harness gets you more upright - but not so much you get nipped under the arm pits and lose freedom of arm movement.

Here's a vid of me and Kathleen landing the same rx3.5 in our tenax 3 harnesses.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/Enggk5v2_jM[/youtube]

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rack n' Pack

23 April, 2014 - 14:40
Author: CP
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:40 am (GMT -8)

The backpack is a fairly simple build but you need the best quality / highest load carrying pack, with a good hip belt and adjustments, If the pack is loose fitting it will be difficult to balance.
Ski poles are abundant here. These are sleeved with solid carbon fiber poles' old style '
This is an older Kelty pack frame welded aluminum ,strong and light.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: ZG 2014 - Free Bird (Lynyrd Skynyrd)

23 April, 2014 - 14:29
Author: Alex Buatois
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:29 am (GMT -8)

Many thanx !! I'm not about the best of technology and nothing is better than old 80's cocoon harness to make mountain ballad & aerial routine !!!
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http://www.youtube.com/user/zerogravitygliding

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: ZG 2014 - Free Bird (Lynyrd Skynyrd)

23 April, 2014 - 14:20
Author: CP
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:20 am (GMT -8)

Its fun to see someone flying with gear that they have, making it happen and not afraid to share the experience with us

The $15000 setups are fun to watch but i hope this kind of video inspires more soul pilots to post there stuff.

Thanks

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: I miss Relate 2 videos !!

23 April, 2014 - 14:19
Author: TomGalvin
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:19 am (GMT -8)

I miss the gentleman too.
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Hummingbird rancher

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rack n' Pack

23 April, 2014 - 14:18
Author: Jason
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:18 am (GMT -8)

very similiar to the rack my dad has on his 85 civic
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Rack n' Pack

23 April, 2014 - 14:06
Author: dievhart
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:06 am (GMT -8)

How much for the backpack?
Diev
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Diev Hart
T2C 154, PREDATOR 142, Falcon 3 195,
Super Sport 153, Super Lancer 200
FL, CL, FSL, AWCL, RLF, AT, TFL, TUR, XC, MNTR
http://www.dievhart.com/hangglide.html
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hgphotos/
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25414 (HG.org Camera Mounts)

Hang gliding general :: RE: paraglider collapse

23 April, 2014 - 14:03
Author: spork
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:03 am (GMT -8)

Scott MacLeod wrote: Collapse, you are spot on...

I'm pretty sure you could search the org, the Oz report, and anywhere else he posts - and you'll find this is a first for that quote.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: I miss Relate 2 videos !!

23 April, 2014 - 14:01
Author: dievhart
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:01 am (GMT -8)

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=221377#221377
(A post of his that did not get that much play time)
Diev
_________________
Diev Hart
T2C 154, PREDATOR 142, Falcon 3 195,
Super Sport 153, Super Lancer 200
FL, CL, FSL, AWCL, RLF, AT, TFL, TUR, XC, MNTR
http://www.dievhart.com/hangglide.html
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hgphotos/
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25414 (HG.org Camera Mounts)

Hang gliding general :: Rack n' Pack

23 April, 2014 - 13:59
Author: CP
Subject: Rack n' Pack
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:59 am (GMT -8)

Here is my new rack and a backpack for hike in launches.

http://youtu.be/kcDvB3iY1K4

Hang gliding general :: How do you use your averager?

23 April, 2014 - 13:49
Author: pjwings
Subject: How do you use your averager?
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:49 am (GMT -8)

Totally geeking out on vario settings here, but I was reading Dave's post in the fainting thermal thread and I started to wonder how other people use their averager. Here's my take on it so far. I'd be very interested to hear how others have added it up, or what you think about my approach.

For me, the averager is useful for identifying the real climb rate in a thermal. If you know your real climb rate, you can use that data to refine your climb. Shift a little toward the stronger side... check averager.. adjust as needed. Keep working toward a better average climb rate. It's also useful in flying XC to have a sense of the day. If average climbs are trending around 500fpm, and you hit something averaging 200fpm you might decide that it's a waste of time. If you fly McReady you also need an averager. In this case the best gauge would be the average of the total thermal.*

Given that most turns in lift have stronger segments and weaker segments it isn't really accurate to report your rate of climb based on a glance at the vario. Most people will report their maximum climb. They'll say "I was climbing at 1000 fpm" because it sounds cool, and it's that high number that sticks in the mind, but what they mean is that they hit a surge for 2 seconds that read 1000 on the vario. That gives an inaccurate view of what the thermal was really doing? Enter the averager.

So now that I know why I care about the averager, how should I set it up? I have my averager set at 30 seconds, which is the maximum my vario supports. I add it up like this. For me a typical 360 takes approximately 15 seconds. My mental map is pretty accurate over the last 360 (15 seconds). I don't have numbers in my head, but I know which segment of my circle was working best and which was working the worst. Setting the averager for 30 seconds gives me an idea of what my climb during the last 2 turns was doing. To me, that's useful. It's a small enough sample to make incremental adjustments to get the most out of my climb, but it's big enough that I'm not tricked into chasing momentary surges or running from momentary sink.


* Side Note: XCSoar and LK8000 have this awesome feature that shows a graph of the average climb rate across the entire vertical band through which you rode that climb. With that graph you can see that thermals today are climbing fastest between say 3000MSL and 4800MSL. The race is in the climb... this information is invaluable if your goal is to race, either against the sun (max distance) or in a comp. Those programs also show the average climb rate of the previous thermal in it's entirety, which is almost always much lower than you'd think due to the amount of time it takes to get established in a climb, plus any time wasted loitering at the top of lift trying to eek out the last few hundred feet.
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http://vimeo.com/pjwings

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: I miss Relate 2 videos !!

23 April, 2014 - 13:44
Author: AcTiOn!JaCksOn
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:44 am (GMT -8)

I loved his videos as well, and even checked his youtube channel the other day to see what he was up too... omg did not know he was no longer with us
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Dustin -
"I'm kind of a big deal....People know me."